Externally rotated front legs

[PawsRehab]

Hi Laurie
I am not too good with technology and had some problems getting into the forum. I will send this to you and maybe you can either post it on the forum or reply to me. I sent you a separate email about access to the forum.

This 2 year old Greater Swiss Mountain Dog was sent to me to see if there was anything that could be done for the externally rotated front legs. They want to breed and show this dog and this fault in stance is not good in the breed world.
XRays are reportedly good
1 episode of lameness in right front after jumping down several months ago. No lameness now. Rotation is not obvious at a trot.
End range RF ext was slightly limited. I thought she had slightly less GH movement (caudal glide) on the RF. She has a great deal of external rotation bilat. All other front leg joints are WNL.
No tenderness over biceps, supraspinatus or infraspinatus tendons. Good length of biceps/triceps when stretched.
She lives on an acreage and jogs with owners.

I tried tensoring with an exaggeration of ER (hoping for her to activate her IR muscles), not sure if you can see my experiment in the pictures? The idea was to tensor for 5 min and then release for 5 min and repeat this when walking. I also asked them to try standing her on small blocks (one for each foot) and once they were able to get her to stay there (she is a rather busy girl and doesn’t like to be in one place for long), to use a tensor and loop it around the front leg and pull the tensor as if pulling the leg under the body so that she has to use her shoulder abductor muscles . I also asked them to stretch her right shoulder into extension.

Any other suggestions?

Thanks for the feedback

Pat

[lehughes]

Hi Pat,

But as far as your dog goes, I think It has to do with where the elbows are in relation to the chest. I've seen it before in other large / giant breed dogs during the 'teenage' year(s) before a dog's chest drops & they fill out.
So I'd work more on things like strength and posture to build the chest and improve on that front end assembly.

My suggestions would be:

• Crawling under
  Digging
  'Push ups' / play bow for a treat
  Front leg 'squats'
  Down hill walking
  Swimming

Good luck!

Cheers,

Laurie

[Stella]

I see this question in another online forum I am in all the time "How do I fix me dogs easty-westy front legs?". Other than any obvious muscle imbalance, and in the case of 'teenage' dogs, the chest not having 'dropped' yet I've always thought of it as a structural issue, i.e: something anatomical that you can't really change. I never reply in the other online forum (on the whole not made up of professionals) because other than the things Laurie suggested I would be telling them that is the way their dog is built - and people don't like it when you tell them that!! Especially when a lot of the other group members are coming up with all sorts of weird and not so scientifically based suggestions! I'm so glad we now have this forum to come and ask questions

[connies]

I am so glad to see this post. I have a similar thing with my own dog. I do hope to show her one day, but won't be breeding her. It is structural and likely the shoulder set, so I would think they can get them to the breed ring, but not sure they want to breed that front end - really depends on what fronts look like in their breed (ie what is out there now).
will add Laurie's recommendations to what I am doing with my pup, but will also tell you - age will help - let her grow up and the chest drop, that will get the elbows apart. Keep doing the standing on blocks and twist the forelimbs into a correct postition - have them do this A LOT. And the blocks should only be large enough to hold the paw safely.
I have also taught mine to stand on a 4x4 board - this teaches balance of course, but also gets the elbows out and feet close. I also note good stance when I have her standing on a fit bone and that gets all the muscles working.
I would love to see a video of this dog moving from the front - I can't image this doesn't show in her gait - mine 'throws her front' which I have used cavalettis to improve, as well as adjusting my speed to improve what she looks like. My hope is I will get what I pattern, but it has to be done frequently.
Overall, with my pup, she is better but still has that 'awful easty westy stance' when I'm not specifically working with it. She is now 2 and things are improving.
They might be able to improve her stance to show her, but if competition is tough, it might take a while, and ultimately she doesn't not have the best front for breeding.

[lehughes]

Great comments Connie & Stella!

[KKelly]

This a great thread - I also see comments about easty west feet a lot of the time. What about easty westy back feet/Sloppy sits?

thank you

[lehughes]

Easty - Westy back feet and sloppy sits would make me say - x-ray the hips!
Laurie

[Hanne]

If you can exclude any anatomical pathologies to the carpal and elbow joints, I tend to find restrictions of the scapula and/or the upper thoracic spine in these patients. I think thy often show weak pectorals as well.

I always treat the thoracic spine and stretch the pectorals, and mobilize the scapula. The external rotation tends to decrease to some amount over time. As Laurie as well as other members wrote, I do think it is important to strengthen the muscles of the fore limbs/chest.

[KKelly]

Yes, I have finally managed to convince the owner about radiographs however as she is involved in obedience she is convinced he only requires strengthening. Also the father sits the same and competes heavily in agility with no problems. Have you seen this with hips being clear? I have seen a lot of these sits pop up on the conditioning facebook group also.
Thank you

[lehughes]

Kelly,
Sloppy sits in rear - if not hips. I check SIJ (usually that's a unilateral problem). One could say it's a strength issue (I know my local obedience folks would have their dogs 'train sits' on a slippery floor, while watching and correcting for any slip sliding.
They could practice sitting on an elevated surface (step stool, cinder block or two pushed together, elevated plank 10 or 12 inches wide), and just sit for prolonged periods. And or sitting up on a peanut, ball, or donut (I actually love the Fitpaws Donut for this). It wobbles as they sit and requires a great deal of muscle activity to hold a proper sit.
Worth a try (with or without bad hips)!
Cheers, Laurie