Hi Everyone,
A referral has come through for a 2 yo Kuvasz that shakes in the hind end when he sits down. I have not assessed the dog yet but am hoping to do some investigation before hand. Hip radiographs were normal. The dog appears to not have any other symptoms, lives on a large property out of town and runs around freely. Any thoughts of things I should make sure to check out? Would love to impress the treating vet as she's a bit stumped as well.
Thanks.
"Shaking" on sit ?Neuro
Re: "Shaking" on sit ?Neuro
Hey There!
I had hoped that others would reply. I'm happy to give you my thoughts:
So, this question ties in with another question that I've been following on a different chat group. Reasons for rear leg shaking.
My 2 cents:
Old dog with shaking rear legs: Upper motor neuron lesion in the Thoracic or cranial Lumbar spine or what I have found more likely in the caudal cervical spine. The latter has been my revelation of the last couple of years! I've started to treat necks preventatively in old dogs, and I'm seeing improvements. This is especially the case in a large or giant breed dog, but I also have a run of Cocker Spaniels that have shown to have caudal cervical (presumed) degeneration that respond well to manual therapy, laser, (and acupuncture during acute flares).
Young giant breed dogs (and I'd go Bernese Mtn Dog sized and up), I think some of them fall into the category of having mild cerebral palsy. Cerebral palsy is caused by anoxia to the brain during or shortly after birth. My thought are that if you are puppy 15 waiting your turn to shoot out of the birth canal, but your umbilical cord broke off earlier in your journey, then you may suffer anoxia, or if your giant mom sat on you, or if you ended up at the bottom of the pile of puppies trying to nurse and your face was squished into the floor... all reasons why a large breed puppy could suffer anoxia. So, there are some young large dogs out there that are clumsy and have more 'shaking' or 'clonus' than other dogs. (I'm sure it could happen in a smaller dog as well, but it does seem to be most notable in lg / giant breeds... maybe they don't hide the neuro deficits as easily.
Check reflexes.
Differentials:
Weakness due to joint issues (check hips, stifles, patellas).
Hope this helps and sorry for a delayed reply!
Cheers, Laurie
I had hoped that others would reply. I'm happy to give you my thoughts:
So, this question ties in with another question that I've been following on a different chat group. Reasons for rear leg shaking.
My 2 cents:
Old dog with shaking rear legs: Upper motor neuron lesion in the Thoracic or cranial Lumbar spine or what I have found more likely in the caudal cervical spine. The latter has been my revelation of the last couple of years! I've started to treat necks preventatively in old dogs, and I'm seeing improvements. This is especially the case in a large or giant breed dog, but I also have a run of Cocker Spaniels that have shown to have caudal cervical (presumed) degeneration that respond well to manual therapy, laser, (and acupuncture during acute flares).
Young giant breed dogs (and I'd go Bernese Mtn Dog sized and up), I think some of them fall into the category of having mild cerebral palsy. Cerebral palsy is caused by anoxia to the brain during or shortly after birth. My thought are that if you are puppy 15 waiting your turn to shoot out of the birth canal, but your umbilical cord broke off earlier in your journey, then you may suffer anoxia, or if your giant mom sat on you, or if you ended up at the bottom of the pile of puppies trying to nurse and your face was squished into the floor... all reasons why a large breed puppy could suffer anoxia. So, there are some young large dogs out there that are clumsy and have more 'shaking' or 'clonus' than other dogs. (I'm sure it could happen in a smaller dog as well, but it does seem to be most notable in lg / giant breeds... maybe they don't hide the neuro deficits as easily.
Check reflexes.
Differentials:
Weakness due to joint issues (check hips, stifles, patellas).
Hope this helps and sorry for a delayed reply!
Cheers, Laurie
LAURIE EDGE-HUGHES
Re: "Shaking" on sit ?Neuro
Hi Laurie,
Thanks for the reply. Just saw this dog finally this week due to scheduling issues and owner was away. Young dog - 2.5 years (farm dog that looks after the goats at night etc). Shaking became noticeable when he was about 4-5 months old. No trauma that they know of. Dog is active otherwise and has no symptoms except the shaking when he goes to sit or lay down. Reflexes were all normal and symmetrical, SI, hip and stifles all checked out okay. (He has had hip xrays and stifle xrays that they did when they neutered him and they came back clear). Vet is suspecting neuro and would refer for MRI but owners are not going to do that. The only thing I could find reactive was T10-L2 region was certainly tender and the owner feels that "energetically" (I live in Kimberley remember) that's where his issue lies. It was certainly stiff and when he was standing it was almost like he was trying to active flex that area. Owner notes she has never seen him getting into a play bow position or anything that would extend his spine. It's interesting.... they don't have a lot of extra funds for PT so I mobilized and lasered and showed her some massage and traction techniques that she felt comfortable doing on her own but generally this dog is left to his own devices to guard the goats. I'll keep you posted....
Jo
Thanks for the reply. Just saw this dog finally this week due to scheduling issues and owner was away. Young dog - 2.5 years (farm dog that looks after the goats at night etc). Shaking became noticeable when he was about 4-5 months old. No trauma that they know of. Dog is active otherwise and has no symptoms except the shaking when he goes to sit or lay down. Reflexes were all normal and symmetrical, SI, hip and stifles all checked out okay. (He has had hip xrays and stifle xrays that they did when they neutered him and they came back clear). Vet is suspecting neuro and would refer for MRI but owners are not going to do that. The only thing I could find reactive was T10-L2 region was certainly tender and the owner feels that "energetically" (I live in Kimberley remember) that's where his issue lies. It was certainly stiff and when he was standing it was almost like he was trying to active flex that area. Owner notes she has never seen him getting into a play bow position or anything that would extend his spine. It's interesting.... they don't have a lot of extra funds for PT so I mobilized and lasered and showed her some massage and traction techniques that she felt comfortable doing on her own but generally this dog is left to his own devices to guard the goats. I'll keep you posted....
Jo
Re: "Shaking" on sit ?Neuro
Absolutely do keep me posted! I have some 'energy feeling' clients as well. Sometimes I'm surprised at what they pick up on! Fingers crossed there's something there you can help with.
'If' that is the root of the problem, I'd add tail pulls and things to work the dura in the region!
Best of luck!
Laurie
'If' that is the root of the problem, I'd add tail pulls and things to work the dura in the region!
Best of luck!
Laurie
LAURIE EDGE-HUGHES